2002.09

pmjs logs for September 2002. Total number of messages: 39

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* Chino Kaori Memorial Lecture Series (Barbara Ruch)
* new members: Rebecca Simonzi, Lynette Perkins, Barbara Ruch
* Job Opening in Kyoto (Barbara Ruch)
* a haiku's author (John Wallace, Sachie Noguchi, Janine Beichman, Rokuo Tanaka, Kendon Stubbs, David Pollack)
* readings on marriage taboos in ancient japan? (Sarah Thal)
* EAJS (Warsaw) (Michael Watson, Bernard Scheid)
* new members: Line Palle Andersen, Heather Blair, Shelley Brunt, Ayako Kinoshita
* re Jordan Sand's message (Leith Morton)
* nihon vs nippon (Rokuo Tanaka)
* tenure-track position in Japanese literature
* a haiku's author (Janine Beichman, John Wallace)
* Nichibunken Evening Seminar (James C. Baxter)
* Nihon, Nippon and Hinomoto (Robin Gill, John R. Bentley, Karel Fiala, Hank Glassman
* Japan Foundation Program Announcement
* Nihon, Nippon nado (David Pollack, Anthony Bryant, Janine Beichman)
* question for the list (Melanie Trede, Lawrence Marceau, Rokuo Tanaka)
* new members: Barbara Ruch, Line Palle Andersen, Heather Blair, Shelley Brunt, Ayako Kinoshita, Lynette Perkins, Rebecca Simonzi

Western character encoding. Still to add: links to page with Japanese text.

Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 14:21:58 -0400
From: Barbara Ruch <br...@...umbia.edu>
Subject: Chino Kaori Memorial Lecture Series

I would be grateful if the following announcement could be posted to the
pmjs members.
Barbara Ruch

The Medieval Japanese Studies Foundation (NYC) has received an initial
commitment of $5,000 for the establishment of a "Chino Kaori Memorial
Lecture Series" in honor of the late Professor Chino Kaori, Professor of
Art History at Gakushuin University in Tokyo, a Research Associate of
the Institute for Medieval Japanese Studies, and a research participant
in the Imperial Buddhist Convent Research and Restoration Project in
Kyoto since its inauguration in 1993.

Despite her still very young age, Prof. Chino's eminence first as
curator at the Tokyo National Museum, and then as Professor at Gakushuin
University, and in other important positions is well known. She brought

to her career a challenge to the study of Japanese visual artifacts far
beyond her discipline of Art History. Her work inspired new and
interpretive ways, new visions of visual artifacts in the context of
religion, gender, narrative, and cultural history, to name but a few.
Her work was always interdisciplinary and her research and lecturing
abroad gave her work an international, intercultural impact unusual in
the field of Japanese Art History. Her mentoring of a whole new
generation of both Japanese and foreign Japanese art historians and
cultural historians is unique. The Chino Kaori Memorial Lectures are
envisioned as building on the extraordinary foundations she laid and can
be billed as the Chino "New Visions"Lecture Series. It is anticipated
that the lectures may be held in a different city each year and that the

Lecturers will be selected, young and old, from those whose work, like
Prof. Chino's, is carving new paths in introducing new interpretive
vistas in scholarship on Japanese visual arts.

The Chino Memorial Lecture Series will be administered by the new Josei
Bukkyo bunka kenkyu centaa (Center for the Study of Women, Buddhism, and

Culture) at the Chusei Nihon Kenkyujo office at Daikankiji convent in
Kyoto. The initial gift is intended to launch the lecture series in the

spring of 2003 in Kyoto. Further, in order to contribute to making the
Chino Memorial Lectures permanent and on-going, the donor has agreed in
principle to match all initial gifts to this fund until a total fund is
reached of $25,000 (2,875,000 yen at $1:115 yen.) The ultimate goal of
the fund is $100,000 (11,500,000 yen), which is required for the
establishment of an endowment to assure the Memorial Lectures continue
in perpetuity.

All gifts to this fund are tax-exempt in the United States. Checks
should be made out to the "Medieval Japanese Studies Foundation" and
mailed to:
B. Ruch
c/o IMJS
509 Kent Hall
Columbia University
NYC, NY 10027

Deposits of yen to the Memorial fund in Japan unfortunately are not
tax-exempt but may be made by Bank Transfer to:
Chusei Nihon Kenkyujo
Sumitomo Ginko
Kyoto, Shijo Branch # 512
Futsu yokin
Account No. 1603249
Daihyo: Oishi Kuniko

In this case a letter to the above Columbia University address notifying
us of the yen gift and giving the name and address of the donor would be
appreciated.

Further inquiries are welcome by email or phone at:
medievalja...@...umbia.edu or (212) 854-7403.

_____________________________________________________________________
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 21:14:17 +0100
From: Michael Watson <wat...@...eijigakuin.ac.jp>
Subject: new members

We welcome three new members to pmjs.

Rebecca Simonzi <rebecca.simo...@...e.edu>

I am a first-year graduate student at Yale in East Asian Studies. Interests focus on the Heian period.

Lynette Perkins <lynperk...@...bi.com>

My PhD is in Political Science, but I am currently doing a translation (J to E) that has led me to research Edo period authors.

Barbara Ruch < br...@...umbia.edu>

Professor Emerita, Columbia University (retired in 1999 from teaching)
(medieval Japanese narrative literature and cultural history; otogi
zoshi; Nara ehon; etoki; heikyoku; women in Japanese literature,
language, and culture; female religious experience in pre-Meiji Japan,
etc.). Currently, still continuing as full-time Director of the
Institute for Medieval Japanese Studies at Columbia, where since 1989 we
began, and since 1994 have focused almost exclusively on the sorely
neglected area of religion, history, literature, and art represented in
Japan's thirteen remaining Imperial Buddhist Convents (monzeki amadera
in Kyoto and Nara). This work led also, since 1999, to a project of
restoration and conservation of the rich archives and secular and
religious art treasures held by these convents, which we run jointly
with the World Heritage Foundation of Tokyo (Hirayama Ikuo, president).

This spring of 2002 we are in the process of renovating and furnishing a
new Resource Center in Kyoto, at Daikankiji, the bodaiji of generations
of imperial princesses who became abbesses of nearby Daishoji monzeki
convent. This small house next to the hondo has been donated to us as
the Kyoto office for these research and conservation projects and will
be devoted to encouraging the study of the literature, paintings and
calligraphy created by these eminent nuns, to the imperial treasures
they hold as artifacts, fabrics, utensils, etc., as well as to the
histories and biographies of imperial convents and nuns from earliest
eras up through the traumatic (for imperial nuns) years of the Meiji
Restoration.

I am eager to hear especially from scholars employed in the Kansai area
as well as students there (or heading there) for graduate work, whose
research interests touch on and whose work would therefore benefit from
the sort of documents, paintings, nuns?portraits, calligraphy, fabrics,
utensils, games, rituals, and customs, etc., emerging from our study of
imperial convents.

For related matters see the Institute's homepage at
www.columbia.edu/cu/ealac/imjs which includes related publications.
Watch for our new Institute supported book: "Engendering Faith: Women
and Buddhism in Premodern Japan" due out the fall of 2002 from the
University of Michigan (Center for Japanese Studies) Press, edited by B.
RuchDate: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 21:14:17 +0100
From: Michael Watson <wat...@...eijigakuin.ac.jp>
Subject: new members

We welcome three new members to pmjs.

Rebecca Simonzi <rebecca.simo...@...e.edu>

I am a first-year graduate student at Yale in East Asian Studies. Interests focus on the Heian period.

Lynette Perkins <lynperk...@...bi.com>

My PhD is in Political Science, but I am currently doing a translation (J to E) that has led me to research Edo period authors.

Barbara Ruch < br...@...umbia.edu>

For related matters see the Institute's homepage at
www.columbia.edu/cu/ealac/imjs which includes related publications.
Watch for our new Institute supported book: "Engendering Faith: Women
and Buddhism in Premodern Japan" due out the fall of 2002 from the
University of Michigan (Center for Japanese Studies) Press, edited by B.
Ruch.
_____________________________________________________________________
From: Barbara Ruch <br...@...umbia.edu>
Date: 2002.Sep.17 23:43:54 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: Job Opening in Kyoto

From: Barbara Ruch <br...@...umbia.edu>
Date: 2002.Sep.17 23:43:54 Asia/Tokyo

POSITION OPENING
September 12, 2002

The Chusei Nihon Kenkyujo in Kyoto seeks a bilingual (Japanese and
English) project administrator to supervise certain expanding projects
in connection with the Kenkyujos newly established Josei Bukkyo Bunka
Kenkyu Centaa in Kyoto. This Project Administrator will report to and
work closely with the Kenkyujos Director and Executive Director. The
post will be either part-time or full-time depending on the quality and
circumstances of the candidate selected.

The candidate need not be an academic; her or his area of expertise is
entirely open. Nonetheless, long experience in Japanese cultural
matters is essential. Administrative and entrepreneurial skills and
creative strengths outweigh academic degrees. The position is initially
for 12-18 months with, under certain circumstances, the possibility of a
longer-term commitment. Salary is in the range of 4.6-5 million yen
annually if full time, but is negotiable. Nationality, race, gender and
age is immaterial.

Absolute Requirements:

Complete bilinguality (Japanese and English) in both spoken and written
forms as well as computer literacy in both languages. This requirement
includes the ability to speak Japanese with comfort and grace with
Japanese women and men of all ages, ranks, and varying occupations, as
well as to be able to communicate in both spoken and written English
effectively with American and European funders and project supporters.

Current residence in Kyoto or within an hours commuting distance to
central Kyoto. (neither moving expenses nor housing expenses are part
of the package)

A thorough familiarity with the cultural manners that assure smooth
personal relations with Kyoto residents from many walks of life. This
will most likely come from long-term residence in Kyoto or the Kansai
region.

Strengths must include strong organizational skills, the ability to
multi-task and the ability to orchestrate team projects, with a natural
enjoyment of people and teamwork.

Letters of Application

Letters of application may be by email, fax or post and should include
an outline biography (resume C.V.) in both English and Japanese as well
as a statement in either English or Japanese of the strengths you would
bring to the position and why you would be our best choice. An overview
of likely projects the position might support can be gained by visiting
the IMJS website at www.columbia.edu/cu/ealac/imjs.

Letters should be addressed to: Miho Walsh
Executive Director, IMJS
509 Kent Hall
Columbia University
New York, NY 10027

Fax: 212-854-1470
Email: medievalja...@...umbia.edu

Interviews of finalists:
Interviews will be held in Kyoto in late October or November. All
finalists will be chosen on the basis of application letters and will be

notified by email by October 15th. Public transportation costs to and
from the interview within the Kansai area will be reimbursed.

Position Starting Date:
Work will begin immediately, preferably before year-end, but not later
than January. Starting day is negotiable.
_____________________________________________________________________
From: John R Wallace <jwall...@...i.com>
Date: 2002.Sep.19 05:11:35 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: a haiku's author

Dear Members,

An American poet who wishes to use a portion of the below haiku in a poem of
hers, needs to know the author of the poem so that she can attribute the
lines to him/her. She does not have the Japanese and only believes that the
author was either Issa, Shiki, Kyorai or Buson. Anyone know this poem?

The autumn wind is blowing;
we're alive and can see each other,
you and I.

John Wallace
Stanford University
_____________________________________________________________________
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 15:55:59 -0500
From: "Sarah Thal" <t...@...e.edu>
Subject: readings on marriage taboos in ancient japan?

Dear Colleagues,

In my undergraduate survey of Japanese history recently, we discussed the position of the female emperor, Jito -- daughter of Tenji and wife of Tenji's younger brother Tenmu. Several students were fascinated by what they considered "incest": the marriage of a woman to her uncle. One student would like to pursue this topic in a short paper.

I am aware of quite a bit of literature on the uxorilocal practices of marriage in Heian Japan. What might I suggest that the student read on issues of marriage taboos or attitudes toward consanguinity in relation to marriage?

Any suggestions you might have would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you (and my apologies for cross-posting),

Sarah Thal

Sarah Thal
Assistant Professor
Department of History - MS42
Rice University
_____________________________________________________________________
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:39:40 +0900
From: Michael Watson <wat...@...eijigakuin.ac.jp>
Subject: EAJS (Warsaw)

Dear Colleagues,

Is anyone on the list short of a member for a premodern literature panel at the European Association for Japanese Studies in Warsaw? Dr. JINNO Hidenori, lecturer at Waseda University (Bungakubu), has asked me to pass on this request. His field is Genji monogatari and Heian literature. One topic that he has suggested is "historical fact and fiction in Heian literature" (Heian bungaku ni okeru shijitsu to kyokou). Another possible topic relates to style / narrative / discourse in Genji and other Heian monogatari.

You contact him in English or Japanese via my wife Midorikawa Machiko <atem...@....com>

A reminder of the conference details again:

10th EAJS conference - 27-30 August, 2002
Call for papers ends 31 October, 2001
Premodern abstracts go to Michael Vieilland-Baron, for details see
http://www.eajs.org/WhatsNew/warsaw.html

Michael Watson
_____________________________________________________________________
From: Sachie Noguchi <noguc...@...t.edu>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:40:56 -0400
Subject: Re: [pmjs] a haiku's author

Dear Wallace-san:

I have checked the Japanese Text Initiative using searching function with "Akikaze" and found that the following Haiku by Masaoka Shiki seems match the English translation you provided:

It is found in Meiji 28-nen part in the following Print Edition:

Shiki Kushu
Masaoka Shiki
Iwanami Shoten: Tokyo, 1941
Prepared for the University of Virginia Library Electronic Text Center.

Hope my finding is correct.

Sachie Noguchi

John R Wallace wrote:

Dear Members,

The autumn wind is blowing;
we're alive and can see each other,
you and I.

John Wallace
Stanford University
_____________________________________________________________________
From: "Bernhard Scheid" <bernhard.sch...@...w.ac.at>
Date: 2002.Sep.20 18:00:22 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: Re: EAJS (Warsaw)

I just want to take this as an occasion to remind you of another topic
of interest for members of pmjs at next year's Warsaw conference:
"Concepts of Secrecy" at the Religion and History of Ideas section.
For details see

http://www.oeaw.ac.at/ias/archiv/cfp_warsaw.htm

Best regards

Bernhard Scheid (convenor)
_____________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Watson <wat...@...eijigakuin.ac.jp>
Date: 2002.Sep.21 22:22:43 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: new members

We welcome the following four members:

Line Palle Andersen < line-ander...@....email.ne.jp>

I am Danish and presently writing my MA-thesis at Gakushuin University in Tokyo. My thesis is about 'Masculinity in ink-paintings from the Muromachi-period'.

Heather Blair <he...@...umbia.edu>

Ph.D. student, Religion Department, Columbia University.
My research interests focus on Japanese mountain religion during the Heian period.

Shelley Brunt <shelley.br...@...dent.adelaide.edu.au>

Ph.D. Ethnomusicology student, Elder School of Music, The University of Adelaide, Australia. I'm a student of A. Kimi Coaldrake. My interests primarily lie in Japanese Popular Music and my thesis is on NHK's Kouhaku Uta Gassen. I would, however, like to brush up on my knowledge of pre-modern Japan.

Ayako Kinoshita <k...@...c.meiji.ac.jp>

Ph.D Candidate at Meiji University, Japanese Ancient-Medieval Literature

I am studying
-- the relation between "The Tale of Genji" and ancient commentaries (kochushaku)
-- classical Chinese writing (kanshibun) and thought in the era of Saga and Uda.

I am currently participating in the project at the National Institute of Japanese Literature on
of "Genji monogatari Kochushaku Database",
the Database of the ancient commentaries of "The Tale of Genji",

URL; http://www.nijl.ac.jp/~t.ito/kinoshita/index.html

Michael Watson <wat...@...eijigakuin.ac.jp>

P.S. I am always happy to update the online profiles of current members--
http://www.meijigakuin.ac.jp/~pmjs/pmjs-db.html
Do let me know when publications have appeared or theses are finished.

_____________________________________________________________________
Apologies for not sending the following to the list earlier. It was sent to me directly when I was abroad.
-- Michael Watson
_____________________________________________________________________

From: Leith Morton <lg...@...nga.newcastle.edu.au>
Date: 2002.Sep.6 16:56:26 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: Re: Jordan Sand's message

Re: Jordan's message

In the West, there are a number of examples of writers who have never gone to
Japan, yet have become infatuated with an image of Japan produced in various
literary and artistic texts. My feeling is that in the 20th century, there are
hundreds of these in English alone. For the case of Australian literature,
Alison Broinowski's classic study 'The Yellow Lady: Australian Impressions of
Asia' (OUP, 1992; but since reprinted) lists many such, even though she is
specifically examining the 'oriental woman' sub-genre. Forgive me if this text
has been mentioned before.

One writer I know who is very well known here and abroad started his love
affair with an imagined Japan from the Theosophical Library of translations of
Buddhist texts relating to Japan. When he actually went there for a stint as
a writer in residence, he was appalled (nothing like translations of Basho)
and has never returned. Another famous Australian writer who seems to have
conceived a life-long hatred of Japan because of his experience there after
the war is Hal Porter, who wrote two books on Japan which are beautifully
written, despite their vituperative prose. I guess translations like the one
recently mentioned in other posts which mashes up the Kojiki with other sacred
texts play some role in this.

Once, many years ago, I was involved very late in the piece with a doctoral
dissertation on Japanese literature produced by a student in the English dept.
who went about his research on Japanese poetry with 18 months or so of
self-taught knowledge of Japanese (I'm not knocking autodidacts-- I once
tutored privately a doctor who in his spare time had taught himself over 7 or
8 years enough Japanese to make a fair translation of Shiga's 'Kinosaki
Nite'). But his tutor in English could only refer him to old translations
full of errors. When I went through the NKBT version of the poems with him
(after he had submitted his dissertation), he was shocked at how much he had
misunderstood -- he didn't know of the existence of annotated Japanese
scholarship. He was using an old literal Japanese-English student style gloss
text as his basic working source, and relying on prewar secondary English
translations with which his tutor was familiar.

For me, this reveals how damaging inaccurate and out of date scholarship can
be. On the other hand, getting to appreciate another society may be more
valuable in the long run, so there is some justification for an infatuation of
Japan based on a mirage. In any case, I suspect that the mirage is formed in
the reader's head more as a result of the individual reader's history and
psychology, as Jordan implies, than because of any flawed source.

Leith Morton

_____________________________________________________________________
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 21:15:10 -0400
From: Jordan Sand <sa...@...rgetown.edu>
Subject: follow-up on exotic Japan

My thanks to colleagues who responded to my open-ended question a couple
of weeks ago about what I called "Lafcadio Hearn Syndrome" and David
Olson re-dubbed KYS (Koizumi Yakumo Shoukougun). I asked because I am
trying to imagine a lineage for my own profound preservationist impulses
toward all material and cultural things Japanese. As I had hoped, my
question was variously interpreted, revealing that there are several
aspects to the problem. For my own purposes, I discern three features,
emerging at different points in history:

1. the foreigner's adoption of "Japan" as a personal object of love, and
accompanying desire to "go native" (found among some Jesuit
missionaries; I had thought of Rodrigues, but as Robin Gill suggested to
me off-list, the interesting figure here appears to be the Italian
Jesuit Organtino, who is described in Schutte's study of Valignano's
mission principles); 2. belief that Japan is a pristine whole and
better unvitiated by outside contact (held by Kaempfer and kokugakusha,
in different senses); and 3. infatuation with the minutiae of Japanese
daily life, anxiety about their fragility, or, alternatively, about the
threat that one's private fantasy may be disturbed or may evaporate
(quintessentially expressed by Koizumi/Hearn).

I myself have been afflicted with each of these symptoms of KYS at one
time or another. I suspect they are fairly common among other
Japanophiles. Historically speaking, they form only an imaginary
lineage, since Hearn was presumably not much influenced by 16th or
17th-century European visitors, and certainly not by native kokugakusha.
As David Olson pointed out, each position must be situated in the
politics of its time. The three are not a developmental sequence, but
configured by political circumstances: Jesuit missionaries, many stuck
in Asia for their lives, were committing themselves to Japan, and
assimilating in order to make converts. This provided a strong
incentive to go native and to believe that Japan was a worthy "bride" of
the church (Organtino's term). Kaempfer's exposure to the "closed"
country was carefully controlled, and he visited in a time of peace and
prosperity. He was also an admirer of autocratic government. Hearn's
romantic perspective derived in part from the fact that he was a
wandering anti-Western Westerner in a country where the state's
modernization policies were threatening the survival of many of the
handcraft industries and everyday-life customs that made Japan look
different from the West.

Now as I write this out, it all looks rather obvious, leaving unanswered
the deeper historical questions concerning the particular circumstances
of each vision of Japanese culture. Still, perhaps there is something
to be learned from comparing various eras' "Japonismes" anyway. Any
further comments would be welcome.

Jordan Sand

**********************************************
Leith D. Morton
Professor of Japanese
School of Language and Media
University of Newcastle, NSW, 2308
Australia
http://www.newcastle.edu.au/school/lang-media/staff/mortonleith.html
Ext. 61 249 21 5360. Fax. 61 249 21 6949
**********************************************
_____________________________________________________________________
From: Janine Beichman <jani...@...l1.accsnet.ne.jp>
Date: 2002.Sep.22 05:34:14 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: a haiku's author

Dear John,

Glad to see that Sachie has established Shiki as the author. You might
also mention to the American poet that the translator should be credited
(it's not me, but I don't know who it is), or, if the poet has revised
someone else's translation, that should be noted as well-- for reasons
of copyright and, even more, proper treatment of translators.

Best wishes,
Janine Beichman
_____________________________________________________________________
From: Rokuo Tanaka <ro...@...aii.edu>
Date: 2002.Sep.22 09:43:54 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: Re: a haiku's author

Professor Wallace:

Japanese bibliographer Dr. Sachiue Noguchi has already identified
the authorship of the poem in question as Shiki so efficiently from the
electronic sources that my message here is somewhat outdated, but...

Shiki wrote a rather lengthy 'maegaki' or foreword attached to his haiku -
Akikaze ya/ikite aimiru/nare to ware - expressing his complicated
feelings of joy of reunion and of sadness of doomed ill-health.

The foreword says (my humble translation) that Hyootei, joined the Sixth
Division of Imperial Army, engaged himself a year in the battle field of
Liaodong, escaped with bare life from the smoke of cannons and the rain of
shells, and returned home. I, meanwhile, fell gravely ill in Kobe and then
Suma, and barely saved the thread of my life. Now I meet Hyootei again.
In a daze, I have no words for my thoughts.

Source: _Shiki Kushuu_. Takahama Kyoshi and Kawahigashi Hekigotoo, eds.,
Tokyo: Yuuzendoo (Haishodoo), 1915. p.118-9.

Notes:
Hyootei, a pen name of Iogi Ryoozoo, was a contemporary haiku poet with
Shiki and employee of the Daily "Nihon", to which Shiki contributed a series
of his essays on the reform of Haiku, even criticizing Bashoo.

Liaodong is a southern region of the former Manchuria.

I hope your poet friend will find this to be of interest.

Rokuo Tanaka
_____________________________________________________________________

From: "Kendon Stubbs" <kstu...@...ginia.edu>
Date: 2002.Sep.22 10:21:14 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: Re: a haiku's author

The English translation of the poem by Shiki appears in R.H.
Blyth's _Haiku_ (Tokyo: Hokuseido, 1949-52). Volume III, page 413 has
the following text, which differs slightly from the version below:

The autumn wind is blowing;
We are alive and can see each other,
You and I.

Kendon Stubbs
_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
From: Janine Beichman <jani...@...l1.accsnet.ne.jp>
Date: 2002.Sep.22 22:09:39 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: a haiku's author

Wonderful to have so much information about the Shiki haiku.
I think the newspaper that Shiki wrote for is usually pronounced Nippon
(rather than Nihon).
Janine
_____________________________________________________________________
From: Rokuo Tanaka <ro...@...aii.edu>
Date: 2002.Sep.23 20:28:25 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: Re: a haiku's author

An interesting comment coming from a Shiki specialist.

I considered the pronunciation issue itself is irrelevant to Professor
Wallace's initial question but is important for translation work. So
before posting my penny worth of contribution, I debated with myself,
"Nihon or Nippon? That is a question."

There are an enormous number of references on Shiki available both in
Japanese and English, from Shiki 's _Dassai Shooku Haiwa Zen_ dated
Meiji 26-nen (1893) to Janine Beichman's _Masaoka Shiki, (1982). Among my
limited sources, I have with me now Kindai Bungakukan's reprint (1968) of
Shiki's _Dassai Shooku Haiwa_ published by Nihon Shin(m)bunsha. Shiki
mentions the newspaper "Nihon" in his preface. But, unfortunately, Nihon
Shimbunsha omits rubi entirely in this book. So I have no proof to insist
on Nihon.

I came across, however, the following two entries:

"Nihon" in Iwanami's _Nihon Rekishi Jiten_(1999), p.232. (on the daily
paper Kuga Katsunan owned and edited. Shiki contributed his articles to
the paper.)

"Nihon Shin(m) bun" in Shoogakkan's _Nihon Kokugo Daijiten, Vol. 15_
(1975), p. 504.

I suggest that you should pay attention to the NKJ's supplementary
comments under the entry of "Nippon" p.486, in which the compilers say
that Nihon and Nippon are interchangeable, but unless there exist
conclusive evidences, Nihon is generally used. Or perhaps you should ask
Donald Keene for the references: vide _Dawn to the West: Japanese
Literature of the Modern Era_ (NY: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1984) on
the news paper Nippon in pp. 94, 109 and on the newspaper Nippon Shimbun
in pp. 55, 57, 107-8.

Kuga Katsunan was an ultra-nationalist. His paper "Nihon" reflected as
such, "politically incorrect," ran against the rapid current of the time,
modernization or Westernization of Japan, and consequently was frequently
banned by the authorities. Hence, Shiki founded his own paper, (well, here
comes the problem of pronunciation again!) "Shoo Nihon or Ko Nihon" or
"Shoo Nippon or Ko Nippon" by which Shiki continued to advocate his reform
movements of tanka and haiku. (Shoo or ko means "chiisai or small." )
Which do you choose?

Rokuo Tanaka
_____________________________________________________________________
From: David Pollack <poll...@...l.rochester.edu>
Date: 2002.Sep.23 22:37:11 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: nihon vs nippon

Obviously without rubi there's no way to tell whether nihon or nippon is
intended. But the issue makes me realize I had always just assumed that
during wartime it would automatically have been read nippon when it appeared
in such public media as the titles of newspapers and magazines etc, or spoken
in announcements and on the radio. Or was that reading the preserve of
militarists and die-hard nationalists? And if so, since when? It seems to
fall trippingly enough off the tongue in the context of nationalist
catchwords like dai nippon teikoku and wagakuni. And of course, political
incorrectness aside, nihon IS etymologically incorrect except as a way of
referring to a pair of pencils....

Now I'm curious if there was some wartime government agency in charge of
ferreting out the use of nihon as somehow feminine and insufficiently
patriotic, and encouraging the use of the heroically masculine nippon --
perhaps the same agency/ies that I imagine enforcing yakyuu over an earlier
besuboru (I don't know the history of how that sport came by its current
weird champon lingo either). So many questions, so little time.

Sorry, not exactly a pmjs topic, even if one that would have interested
Motoori Norinaga, who would have insisted on reading the word as
yamatotsukuni or higamoto.

David Pollack

From: John R Wallace <jwall...@...i.com>

Date: 2002.Sep.24 01:36:17 Asia/Tokyo

Subject: Shiki's akikaze ya poem

Dear Sachie, Janine, Kendon and Rokuo--

Thank you (again) Sachie for locating the original so quickly. This was both
helpful and a good reminder on the value of the Japanese Text Initiative.

Thank you, Janine, for the always welcome attention to the importance of
attributing sources. My poet's difficulty was exactly that: the English
writer she had been reading quoted the poem without its source. She
contacted me precisely because she wanted to give credit where credit was
due.

And so, thanks to Kendon who identified that source and so Blyth will get
the citation he deserves. Since her English source is slightly different
from Blyth, she may well have encountered a second or third quoting of his
original.

And, finally, thanks to Rokuo for the additional information regarding the
poem. It will be my pleasure to forward it to the poet who contacted me and
no doubt will enrich her own poem.

--John Wallace
_____________________________________________________________________
From: Rokuo Tanaka <ro...@...aii.edu>
Date: 2002.Sep.24 04:32:26 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: Re: nihon vs nippon

I agree with you the issue is not a pmjs topic. But let me post just one
more:

NOT so long ago when I was in a kindergarten, we all sang a children's
song "Hi no maru no hata" in the classroom. The lyrics go like this:

Shiroji ni akaku
Hi no maru somete,
Ah, ah, utsukushi ya
NIHON no hata wa.

It is said that Shiki was an ardent fan of "yakyuu" and invented many
yakyuu terms, some of which are still used today. My sheer speculation
that Shiki created the word yakyuu instead of baseboru.

The term "Nippon" first appeared in Japan in _Nippo jisho_ in 1603,
Japanese-Portuguese Dictionary, _Vocabulario de Lingoa de Japam_.
It is a foreign language. I wonder we used it during the war time.
Gender issue on Nihon or Nippon is new to me!

Rokuo Tanaka

On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, David Pollack wrote:

Obviously without rubi there's no way to tell whether nihon or nippon is
intended.
...
Sorry, not exactly a pmjs topic, even if one that would have interested
Motoori Norinaga, who would have insisted on reading the word as
yamatotsukuni or higamoto.

David Pollack

_____________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Watson <wat...@...eijigakuin.ac.jp>
Date: 2002.Sep.24 14:18:56 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: tenure-track position in Japanese literature

The Department of Comparative Literature and Foreign Languages at the University of California, Riverside invites applications for a new tenure-track Assistant Professor position in Japanese literature funded in part by a staff expansion grant from the Japan Foundation, to begin July 1, 2003. We particularly welcome candidates with a focus in premodern or early modern poetry, drama, or prose; but those with a specialization in any area or period of Japanese literature, broadly defined, are encouraged to apply. The successful candidate will help build student interest in the department's expanding undergraduate programs in Japanese, as well as participate in the graduate program in Comparative Literature. The position will require interaction with interdisciplinary departments and programs on campus as appropriate to the candidate's focus, for example Asian Studies, Comparative Ancient Civilizations, Film and Visual Studies, or Women's Studies. The teaching load is 4 or 5 quarter-courses per year, including some advanced language teaching. Salary will be commensurate with education and experience, with strong support for faculty research. Applicants should have a PhD in hand at the time of appointment, and native or near-native fluency in Japanese. Send a letter of application and vita along with 3 letters of recommendation and a short writing or publication sample to:

Yenna Wu, Chair
Japanese Literature Search Committee
Department of Comparative Literature & Foreign Languages
University of California
Riverside, CA 92521-0321

The review of applications will begin Friday, November 1, 2002.

The University of California is an EEO/AA employer.

Anyone with questions about the position should feel free to contact Christopher Bolton at christopher.bol...@....edu
Further information about the department is also available on the web at http://complitforlang.ucr.edu

From: Janine Beichman <jani...@...l1.accsnet.ne.jp>
Date: 2002.Sep.24 23:24:05 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: [pmjs] [a haiku's author]

John, that's nice that the poet was trying to find the translator as well as
the author--sorry, I didn't understand. I'm now curious about her poem
itself, to see how she's incorporated Shiki. Somehow I have the feeling I
would like it.
Best wishes, Janine
_____________________________________________________________________
From: John R Wallace <jwall...@...i.com>
Date: 2002.Sep.25 09:10:53 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: [pmjs] [a haiku's author]

Dear Sachie, Janine, Kendon and Rokuo:

The American poet who wanted to know the source for the "akikaze ya" poem
was quite taken by the amount of information our list was able to send her
way and she has asked that I express her thanks to you all.

John Wallace

SECOND--

Dear Janine:

Janine, I also have not seen her poem. We'll be meeting in the next couple
of weeks and maybe she'll show it to me. She was to send off her manuscript
which includes that poem in the first couple of weeks in October, so it will
be in the public domain soon enough anyway. I'll share it if she agrees.

John
_____________________________________________________________________
From: "James C. Baxter" <bax...@...hibun.ac.jp>
Date: 2002.Sep.25 12:42:56 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: [pmjs] Nichibunken Evening Seminar
Although the focus will be on the modern period, some members of the pmjs
list might be interested in a talk that will be given at the International
Research Center for Japanese Studies, Kyoto, next week:

Nichibunken Evening Seminar on Japanese Studies (74th Meeting)

October 3 (Thursday), 4:30-6:00 PM

Speaker: Susan L. Burns, Associate Professor of History, University of
Chicago and Visiting Research Scholar, International Research Center for
Japanese Studies

Topic: "Illness as Identity: 'Leprosy Literature' (_rai bungaku_ ÉâÉCïäw)
and the Hygienic Nation"

Language: English

Place: Seminar Room 2, International Research Center for Japanese Studies,
3-2 Oeyama-cho, Goryo, Nishikyo-ku, Kyoto 610-1192
URL: http://www.nichibun.ac.jp/
_____________________________________________________________________
From: "robin gill" <robin...@...lsouth.net>
Date: 2002.Sep.25 12:07:45 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: [pmjs] Nihon, Nippon and Hinomoto

Nihon, Nippon and Hinomoto

'Nihon vs Nippon" may not be a pmjs topic, but it raises a question that
certainly is. Before posing it, some things found googling that touch upon
things mentioned in rokuo tanaka and david pollack's letters:

The explosive 'nippon' seems to have come from 'nichihon,' possibly via
"jippon" and both nihon and j/nippon may have been used at the end of the
16th century --- and not just by foreigners --- one site (below) uses
chinese sources dating 1590 to explain this in more detail than i could
follow and either it or yet another site mentions norinaga went for
'nihomu.'
(http://www.aa.aeonnet.ne.jp/~yamak/nipponnkokumeikou1.htm )

Apparently, tokugawa japanese just couldn't handle the explosive sound and
gave it up with the gun, settling on the softer, lazier? 'nihon,' for
hasegawa nyozekan, in a book called "nihon no samazama" claimed that until
mid-meiji, 'nihon' alone was used, but the militarists (gunjin) said it was
too gentle (yasashisugite) and didn't sound gallant (isamashiku kikoenai),
so they pushed to adopt and standardize the explosive "p" sound: there is
something to our gut feeling that nippon is tough and nihon tender (rokuo
tanaka's song --- utsukushi ya / nihon no hata wa --- makes sense, for
beauty is tender)!
(http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/hechima_bn11.shtml#474)

There is even a site offering a huge nihon/nippon no yomikata jiten that
mentions companies with the characters in their name officially pronounced
'nippon' whose secretaries almost always pronounce it 'nihon' over the
telephone (statistics given, of course) because, i think, it is more polite
not to pop 'nippon' into people's ears
http://www002.tokai.or.jp/hiramatu/onyak/nippon.htm

I am not sure if 'nippon,' is "a foreign language," as rokuo tanaka muses,
but the whole concept of hinomoto certainly is, for japan could only be so
viewed from the continent, no?

My question is would anyone know if ueda akinari or any other rationalists
pointed this out?

( *>
// )
lL
robin d gill
uncoolwa...@...mail.com
_____________________________________________________________________
From: "John R. Bentley" <jbentl...@....edu>
Date: 2002.Sep.25 21:08:52 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: [pmjs] Re: Nihon, Nippon and Hinomoto

Regarding nihon vs. nippon. Naturally the Chinese
spelling of ri ben goes back to Nihon shoki, though
it is always read Yamato. The first example of a
non-Yamato reading is 704 (in Shoku nihongi).
Awata Asomi Mahito has just come back from Tang
China. And relates that when he had first arrived
there someone approached him and said what am
ambassador are you? He says he answered ri ben guo
which the manuscripts gloss as nichihonkoku.

Aoki Kazuo and other historians believe this to be
the first legitimate use of the Chinese reading for
these graphs. Around this time 'sun' was read
something close to nit and 'base' close to hon. So
the logical conclusion was the first reading was
nichihon. The Japanese did not have geminates
in the Nara era. The reading of Nippon would
have been in the Heian era. Nothing further is
known until the 16th century. But if you carefully
look through the work of Rodtriguez, he uses
BOTH nippon and nifon. So even then the choice
seems to have been one of simple usage and not much
else.

John Bentley

_____________________________________________________________________
From: "Karel Fiala" <fukud...@...l.fpu.ac.jp>
Date: 2002.Sep.26 13:43:43 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: [pmjs] Re: Nihon, Nippon and Hinomoto

As for reading in 704, I would suggest consulting specialists
on the phonetics and phonology of the pre-Nara Period (which I
am not). There was no "h" in this age. Also the Chinese pronunciation
was quite different .And final consonants in Chinese morphemes were often
ignored in Japan since very early times.

It is of interest, too, that for example the so-called "Nihon Shoki"
was not, or at least "usually", transliterated into Kana as "Nippon
Shoki", etc.
After all, it is really hard to believe that there was no "Nifon"
reading before the 16 Cent. K.Fiala

_____________________________________________________________________
From: "John R. Bentley" <jbentl...@....edu>
Date: 2002.Sep.26 22:21:15 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: [pmjs] Re: Nihon, Nippon and Hinomoto

I apologize if my earlier posting was vague
or misleading. I am a linguist specializing in
pre-Nara (or Asuka) linguistics as well as
Nara. As linguists we are often criticized for
not being able to speak or write for a non-
specialized audience. My earlier posting was
meant for such an audience.

Professor Fiala writes:
As for reading in 704, I would suggest
consulting specialists on the phonetics
and phonology of the pre-Nara Period
(which I am not). There was no "h" in this age.

It is true there was no "h" in Nara, but that is
irrelevant to the discussion. This thread, as I
understand it, was about usage and origins.

Also the Chinese pronunciation was quite
different.

I'm not sure what this means. Different from
what? Different from what I said in my
earlier posting? In order to avoid any
misunderstanding, let me put my
historical Japanese AND historical Chinese
hat on:

Around the time of 704 "Chinese" refers to
Late Middle Chinese, so ri4 ben3 "Nihon"
is reconstructed as rit-pun (according to Pulleyblank
1991:32, 266). It would seem, however, that
the reading preserved in Shoku Nihongi may
be a throw back from Early Middle Chinese,
where ri4 ben3 is Nit (N = a voiced
palatal nasal...@...@ = schwa). So the
reading in Shoku Nihongi becomes Nara era
niti-pomu, because Nara era Japanese had a p
(could have been a fricative /f/, but I doubt that
for reasons not relevant here) and no consonant
final -n. Mu was the best Japanese could do.

And final consonants in Chinese morphemes were
often ignored in Japan since very early times.

Yes, when sinographs were used as phonograms.
But here the sinographs are used as a Chinese loan.
In this case the Japanese did the best they could. And
that is clear here with the transcription:

EMC Ni...@...J: niti-pomu

My point here is that nippon (originating from niti-pomu

nitpon > nippon) appears to be the original reading. As
Rokuo points out, the reading is foreign, because the spelling
is based on Chinese. But that does NOT mean that Nihon is native.

Ri4 ben3 is so easily interpreted that there are very few

texts where these two graphs are glossed with a phonetic
reading. That is why there is a dearth of information about the
word from Heian up to the 16th century. I agree 100% with

Professor Fiala that it is very difficult to believe the
reading nihon (or however you wish to transcribe it) did not
exist earlier than the 16th century.
Let me add one last tid bit which should be food for
thought. In the language of Okinawa (specifically the Shuri
dialect, which was the language of the nobility), the word for Japan is
yamatu. The Shuri language is really not attested earlier than
the 15-16 century. So it would appear that the reading of Yamato
for Japan did not die out completely.

Hope that discussion is cogent.

Best,

John Bentley
_____________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Watson <wat...@...eijigakuin.ac.jp>
Date: 2002.Sep.26 10:50:24 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: [pmjs] Japan Foundation Program Announcement

The Japan Foundation promotes mutual understanding and cultural exchange
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_____________________________________________________________________

Hi All,

I'm not really sure where this thread began -- was it the title of the magazine "Nippon?" -- but the direction it has taken is very interestin...@...anks for all your musings.

People might also take a look at the brief but useful:

Amino Yoshihiko. "Deconstructing `Japan.'" East Asian History 3 (1992): 121-142.

best,

Hank
-------------------

Hank Glassman
Assistant Professor, East Asian Studies
Haverford College
370 Lancaster Avenue
Haverford, PA
19041-1392

(610) 896-1265
hglas...@...erford.edu
fax: (610) 896-1224
http://www.haverford.edu/east/glassman
_____________________________________________________________________
From: "Karel Fiala" <fukud...@...l.fpu.ac.jp>
Date: 2002.Sep.28 06:47:02 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: [pmjs] Re: Nihon, Nippon and Hinomoto

Cordial thanks to Prof. Bentley for explanation .I shall return
to this subject later.

I believe there is "interference" between different systems: phonetics
and phonemics, domestic and foreign morphemes,graphemes and
pronunciation, perhaps also phonographs and ideographs .I assume that
without such interference,the form "Nihon"would not exist. This is why
phonetics matters.

I apologize for my misleading formulation, of course. I meant just a
linguist who believes in this interference. I have read your articles
and appreciate your achievements.
K.Fiala

_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 22:23:46 -0400
From: David Pollack <poll...@...l.rochester.edu>
Subject: [pmjs] Re: Nihon, Nippon nado

Many thanks to all who have helped repair my ignorance on the vexed issue
of nihon/nippon.

David Pollack
_____________________________________________________________________
From: "Anthony J. Bryant" <ajbry...@...iana.edu>
Date: 2002.Sep.28 15:46:16 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: [pmjs] Re: Nihon, Nippon nado

Heck, now that we've solved that one... Here's one thing that I've *always*
wondered.

Why, in historical/bakumatsu references, is one place *always* called
Satsuma and the other Choshu? (That is, why not Satsuma and Nagato, or Sassu
and Choshu? Why the difference in nomenclature?) It's just a little thing
I've long wanted to get a handle on. <G>

Tony
_____________________________________________________________________
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 18:22:32 -0400
From: Melanie Trede <m...@....edu>
Subject: [pmjs] question for the list

Dear Colleagues,

I wonder whether anyone has come across the following two Tokugawa period titles on the Ryukyu islands and could direct me to a published version. The Kokusho somokuroku lists only the first, but does not mention a publication.

Ryuukyuu zatsuwa
Ryuukyuu umisuzume (the second word is in hiragana)

Thanks very much for any hint.

Best,
melanie trede
_____________________________________________________________________
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 22:31:53 -0400
From: Lawrence Marceau <lmarc...@...l.Edu>
Subject: [pmjs] Re: question for the list

Melanie,

I wish I could help you further, but I believe that Ryuukyuu zatsuwa
is a furoku to Ryuukyuu nendai ki, edited by Oota Akira (Oota Nanpo). A
description is found at

http://www.lib.u-ryukyu.ac.jp/digia/tenji/zenchu/zn02/s009.html

in Ryukyu University.

I checked an edition of the Ota Nanpo, but it isn't included there.

It might be better to check with an Okinawa studies expert.

Lawrence Marceau
_____________________________________________________________________
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 00:35:34 -1000 (HST)
From: Rokuo Tanaka <ro...@...aii.edu>
Subject: [pmjs] Re: question for the list

Ms. Trede:

May I suggest that you should contact our Japan Specialist Librarian Ms.
Tokiko Yamamoto-Buzzel at Asian Collection, Hamilton Library, UH at Manoa.
Her e-mail address: <tok...@...aii.edu>

Our library has Kajiyama Collection that specializes OLD Okinawan
documents, maps, and other miscellaneous publication. The collection is
in a closed section where scholars and researchers from the mainland and
Japan can access to the collection only under the supervision of
librarians. The collection is so old and valuable, no ILL is allowed.

You may use my name for referral.

Good luck.

Rokuo Tanaka

_____________________________________________________________________
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 23:50:28 +0900
From: janine <jani...@...l1.accsnet.ne.jp>
Organization: Department of Japanese Literature, Daito Bunka University
Subject: Nihon Shimbun or Nippon Shimbun?

I happened to be reading Donald Keene's book on Japanese diaries and
noticed that he says "Nihon" for the newspaper that Masaoka Shiki wrote
for. Then I looked at his Dawn to the West, and he also reads it the
same way there. This made me think that perhaps my preference for
reading it as Nippon was mistaken. So I searched google.co.jp, using the
kanji for Masaoka Shiki and the newspaper's name and then "Nippon' in
hiragana ê>â™éqãK ìñ{ ÇÇ¡Ç¤ÇÒ and came upon the opinion that it can
actually be read either way but that Nippon might have been more
current. I don't know who runs this list or how authoritative it is, but
the idea that either reading is acceptable sounds right, so I am posting
it.

http://www.jbbs.net/study/bbs/pageview.cgi?PAGE=2&BBS=19

ìñ{êVï (Res:2)

2 ñºëOÅF ä«óùêl ìäçeìÅF 2002/06/28(ã¦) 18:06

ÇÇæÅAñæé°éûë"Åiì¡ÇëOîºÅjÇÇ¢Ç§ÇÃÇÕÅAç°Çà·Ç¡ÇÅA
äøéöÇÃì«ÇðèëÇ´ÇÇÕÇªÇÍÇ×Ç«Ç±ÇæÇÌÇ¡ÇÇ¢ÇÐÇÇÒÇÃÇÅA
Ç«ÇøÇÁÇ™ê>ÇµÇÇÇ«ÇøÇÁÇ™ä'à·Ç¢ÇÇ¢Ç§ÇÃÇÇÕÇ»Ç¢Ç©Ç¦ÇµÇÍÇÐÇÇÒÅB

ìØÇÇ¦ÇÃÇìÒÇ¬ÇÃì«Çðï°ÅEèëÇ´ï°Ç™?

[end of quote in Japanese from mailing list]
_____________________________________________________________________
From: "B.M. Bodart-Bailey" <bod...@...uma.ac.jp>
Date: 2002.Sep.30 10:09:03 Asia/Tokyo
Subject: [pmjs] Re: Nihon Shimbun or Nippon Shimbun?

Could it be that the pronunciation varies according to circumstances and the
sentiments of the speaker? Maybe it is a particular Western trend to have to
"nail down" the correct form. The fact that the writing system gives no clue
to the pronunciation seems to indicate that it does not really matter, or
rather that this vagueness is welcome to permit additional layers of
meaning. Just like there is a choice of kanji (or the choice between using
hiragana, katakana and kanji) for certain words, all of them altering the
meaning slightly. Of course, there is the problem of transcription ...

Beatrice M. Bodart-Bailey
Otsuma Women's University
Tama Campus.
_____________________________________________________________________
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 23:10:15 -0400
From: David Pollack <poll...@...l.rochester.edu>
Subject: [pmjs] yet once more Nihon/Nippon

So it may vary according to how the speaker feels at any given moment? After
all, the name of the publishing house can be found transliterated as both
Shogakukan and Shogakkan, and I hear people use the latter in Japan even though
the company uses the former, and that written usage at least seems far more
widespread. Perhaps insisting on pronouncing it Shogakukan indicates that the
speaker has a higher level of education, which would make it a hiden sort of
thing? I have trouble saying Shogakukan and wonder if it doesn't feel more than
a bit odd even to a native Japanese speaker.

On the other hand I've heard the (formerly) US publisher called both Knopf and
Nopf here and no one seems to know or care how it "should" sound even though
it's quite certain how it should be written. I'd be willing to bet that during
WWII the name would have been pronounced as un-Germanically as possible. Now,
who knows?

I wonder if the Nippon/Nihon problem might not be related to the issue of
earlier vs later on-yomi of the same kanji, coming in different forms as
Chinese phonological features changed -- i.e., the final in nit/nichi (jitpen)
having elided to just ni/ni (riben) in a later importation (did Shanghainese
keep the n- initial?). Modern Mandarin which changed more quickly dropped the
p/t/k finals preserved in the more conservative Cantonese. By the time those on
the mainland fleeing the Manchus were arriving in Japan from north China, their
own pronunciation of the word would likely have varied considerably from
pronunciations canonized earlier in Japan, much as the dynasty that held their
hearts and minds became in Japan the Min rather than the Mei or Myou.

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